Float Like A Butterfly Interview: Carmel Winters
“I recognised there was great power in seeing a young female Irish Traveller in this light on screen. It took quite a while to get the film financed — I think because as a society we are slow to celebrate the greatness of women. But the harder it was to get made the more I knew it was needed!”
On the surface, FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY is a boxing film but underneath is a harrowing tale of a young girl fighting for her voice.
As a child, Frances (Hazel Doupe) has an idyllic life. Her family are a band of travellers, telling folk stories through song and living in caravans in the country.
When her mother is killed and her father (Dara Devaney) is taken to jail, Frances’ whole life changes.
This story may be set in the 1960s but has many parallels to the culture we live in today.
When her father is released from prison, Frances has to fight — literally and figuratively — the oppressive role her family is forcing on her and prove her dreams are worthy.
FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY is a gorgeous story, filled with traditional Irish folk songs and stunning coastal views.
Carmel Winters is an award-winning writer and director for stage and screen. As a playwright, Winters was awarded the Irish Times Irish Theatre Best New Play award for her play B For Baby, and her debut feature film Snap won Best Irish Feature and Best Director at the Dublin Critics’ Circle Awards. Snap also took home the audience vote for Best Film at Montevideo International Film Festival. Winters has since premiered four new plays: Best Man, Witness, Salt Mountain and The Remains of Maisie Duggan and participated in the Guiding Lights scheme for filmmakers, mentored by John Madden.
You can see Float Like A Butterfly at this year’s Toronto International Film Festival, screening as part of Discovery on September 8th at 2:15PM, September 10th at 7:00PM and September 14th at 3:15PM.
Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved with filmmaking.
Carmel Winters: I am the second youngest in a family of twelve children, six girls and six boys. This kind of upbringing is the equivalent to having a front-row seat at a wide range of constantly unfolding human dramas. My observation and participation skills were honed then. I was fascinated by many different paths in life — performance, healing, working for social justice, shamanism, teaching, politics… When I realized that filmmaking brings all these paths together in the making and communication of a vision of the world I was co-opted.
Tell us about Float Like a Butterfly. Where did the idea come from?
CW: The character of Frances came to me first. I remember I wrote almost a ‘testimony’ in her voice. And after that, she would not let me go. She fought as hard to get me to show and tell her story, as she fights on screen for justice! It was curious to me to work with a character who is a hero. I am usually drawn to anti-heroes, people whose failures illuminate and inspire compassion for all of our hidden weaknesses. But from the get-go, Frances was intrinsically noble, clear-eyed and — against all odds — very much a champion of her circumstances. I recognised there was great power in seeing a young female Irish Traveller in this light on the screen. It took quite a while to get the film financed — I think because as a society we are slow to celebrate the greatness of women. But the harder it was to get made the more I knew it was needed!
This film showcases sexism with Frances when she is being told her only role in life is to be subservient to the men around her and her little brother, who is told he is not ‘masculine’ enough. Why did you decide to make a film focused on these issues?
CW: I think you have to injure a boy/man to make a misogynist out of him. Children aren’t born with an instinct to oppress women. I would suggest the opposite. We all owe our existence to a mother. She is worthy of our deepest honour and respect — and inspires it until either corrupted circumstances or social pressures distort this first attitude towards the female. In the film, Frances’ family relations are not as simple as your question suggests. As a young girl, her father clearly adores her. We see her propped on his shoulders, enjoying his mantra that ‘She is the Greatest’. “Our own little Muhammad Ali” he calls her, “the new heavyweight champion of the world.” Her grandfather, we see, is charmed by her champion qualities too.
The film shows how Frances’s father, brutalised and defeated himself by the system (as represented by the police force), loses this natural instinct to support and nurture his daughter’s greatness. Frances’ mother lost her life when she wrestled with the force of the law. It is understandable (though errant) that Frances’ father thinks that he is protecting his daughter when he tries to “keep her in line.” But Frances experiences it as an enormous emotional and tribal betrayal. Frances has to deal with the double loss of both her mother and her father as someone she can believe in and who believes in her. This is the fate of many women in our society. Separated from a natural support structure, we have to ‘go it alone.’ It takes supreme courage and strength to do so. Not only does Frances rise to the challenge, she re-inspires her father’s self-respect which allows him in turn to honour her and her maternal inheritance of bravery. I think this is a win/win for both of them. When fathers fail their daughters they fail themselves as well. In destroying bonds of affection, trust and solidarity between women and men, patriarchy injures men as well as women.
Float Like a Butterfly uses Irish folk songs throughout the film. Why did you decide to have these songs sprinkled throughout the movie?
CW: In song we often communicate things to each other we cannot otherwise say. The melody as well as the lyric can speak directly from one heart to another. In the film, we see an ancient nomadic way of life kept alive by Irish Travellers. The songs I think hold the spirit of this ancient animist past. And on a personal level, they are ghosts of the characters past relationships trying to be remembered and relived in their present.
Can you tell us about some/all of the other amazing women who worked on this film?
CW: There was an active coven of powerful visionary women (witches in the true sense) at work at the heart of Float Like A Butterfly. Production Designer Toma McCullim brought great magic to the film, manifesting whatever was needed in a way that astounded her team. It was her first time designing a feature film. She’s an artist, healer, shaman and social justice warrior — just the qualities needed to make the impossible possible. She worked hand in glove with Costume Designer Triona Lillis who worked wonders in conjuring character through costume. (Both Toma and Triona believe in the potent life of objects so every single item you see in the film is the real deal.) Their teams were absolutely exemplary of the power of women working co-operatively together.
Producer Martina Niland kept the faith at those times when it seemed like we were stuck with incomplete finance. She carried the torch when I faltered. And Co-Producer Cathleen Dore brought a very vivid belief in the magic of the project alongside a robust and creative approach to managing the budget. In the roles of Frances’ Granny and Mother, I had very potent female energies. True to her character ‘Nana’, Hilda Faye brought pure soul to the film. And Lisa Lamb brought love — in spades — to the role of Frances’ mother.
Finally, the jewel in the crown was Hazel Doupe, who played Frances. She was a leading light for everyone around her throughout the making of this film. Utterly at one with her genius and possessed of the finest intelligence, courage and capability, Hazel is radiant on screen and off. I am very proud to have created a role to showcase her luminous talent.
Tell us about why you are a feminist and why it’s important to your filmmaking.
CW: I’m a feminist because I believe the world deserves the best in us. And we deserve the chance to be the greatest we can be. And life is too short to watch or make films that dumb and numb us.
Who are your favourite women working in the film industry?
CW: Jill Soloway is a mighty catalyst for change through the stories we tell. Her production company Topple are busy creating the industry of tomorrow today. Also Christine Vachon, Deepa Mehta, Sarah Polley, Lynn Ramsay, Tilda Swinton, Frances McDormand, Charlize Theron, Andrea Arnold… I am full of admiration for, and gratitude to these and countless other pioneers and pathfinders.
What’s the best advice about filmmaking you’ve ever received?
CW: “No film ever got made because of what was put on the page. This is a relationship-based industry.”
What are your three favourite smells?
CW: Orange Blossom. My gal’s armpit. A Baby’s Scalp.
What three people, living or dead, would you invite to your fantasy dinner party?
CW: My mother’s mother and her mother (they both died before I was born) and Margaret Thatcher. I think between the three of them I would understand more of the personal and political world I have inherited. And I am curious to see if Margaret Thatcher, with the wisdom of death, regrets that she dedicated her life to deadly capitalism.
Finally, recommend one #MUFFApproved film for our blog readers!
CW: The documentary, The Farthest, is directed by Emer Reynolds and shot by cinematographer Kate McCullough (who shot my last feature Snap). They are two of the most intelligent, curious and compassionate people I have ever met. And the film pulses with those qualities.
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*This post was originally featured on The MUFF Society.*
